Wine with Roleen    11/2011

Notes taken by Kathe

So we convene at the wonderful home of Michael and Jeff (Imonie, EW) for Wine with Roleen. For those of you who aren’t able to make Coffee with Roleen, this is a great opportunity. And it’s great for those who do come to the Coffees, as the faces are new, and it’s so nice to have a chance to get to know your fellow parents on a deeper level.

As usual, Roleen comes ready with some things to talk about, but we always just see where the conversation takes us. This being the kick-off of the holiday season, we jump right in with:

Let’s talk about Families Visiting!

It can be complicated. You’re happy to see your parents, and thrilled with the kind of attention that your kids can be getting, but it can be fraught as well. One parent describes coming home after his mother had taken his daughter all day, to find his daughter with lipstick on and smelling of perfume. But it was great. Something she wouldn’t have done otherwise, and great for her to have that kind of special time. But family in the house, and being with family for the holidays can bring up a lot of feelings.

Often the issue comes down to how you parent. When Roleen saw a few years ago that there was a trend starting of grandparents picking kids up, she put together a day for the grandparents to come in, and they got to be truly included, instead of feeling on the periphery. She took them around, gave them a tour. There’s tension when they parent differently than you are parenting, and in many ways it’s a generational thing. It’s a different style. What emerged from the discussion with the grandparents is the clash of styles–how do you keep your mouth shut as a grandparent? They are really not knowing what to do. When we get stuck, we get agitated and frustrated about what doesn’t work. And the temper tantrums, especially, can be very tough for them. Maybe a little bit of time together isn’t a big deal, but when they are really taking care of them, it can be rough. They think you’re being too easy on your kids, and they also think you’re being too strict.

Although it may sound difficult, some conversation about what’s important to you, or what their expectations might be, can help. But you CAN’T have this conversation when you’re “in it”. If you’re already in it, it’s too late. If you’re battling with them, you won’t win.

“But they don’t want to talk about it when it’s NOT happening!” “They want everything to be NICE.”

This is where you need to figure out some way to approach the conversation that won’t be threatening. It can feel to them like an indictment of their parenting. So there are some things that you really want to let go of. They may be trying to be the Mom, instead of the Grandma.

People talked about the great memories they had of their grandparents. Also great memories of being spoiled, and how good that felt. It’s important to try and remember what they’re doing really RIGHT. And as hard as it can be, it’s important to try to have the conversations with them about what’s happening. We forget to re-connect.

One father offers: “There’s a trick to driving a point across. If you can put the point across in a way that’s reasonable, just a little “dip into the soil”. It actually can sink in, if you let it go, and don’t feel obligated to keep making the argument.”

What about when your child speaks disrespectfully to their grandparents? It’s going to be a tough one for them. It can hurt their feelings. It’s really okay to have a conversation with your kids beforehand, about how we can come up with a way to make sure Grandma’s feelings aren’t hurt. The children can be feeling a lot of pressure– to kiss, and hug, for instance.  Sometimes they might stop wanting to go visit the grandparents, if they’re feeling this pressure and expectation. You can talk about it before, act out what will happen: How can we prepare ourselves? Children are incredibly capable of putting themselves in another’s place.

Roleen suggests the book MIND IN THE MAKING, by Ellen Gallinsky. She talks about how we must learn to put ourselves in another’s shoes. We must help our children to see from another perspective.

One parent brought up the conflict she was having with her son’s behavior toward her mother. How do you talk to a 3 year old about problem-solving? They DO have the capability. And this may be a habit that’s formed, and you need to break the habit. Try using “persona dolls” to talk it through and work it out. Any little animals or characters will do.

Report the situation back to them. “We need to work out a plan where Gramma’s feelings aren’t hurt. Let’s pretend with the dolls.” Children need to break unsociable habits. We do our children a huge disservice by not giving them social skills. You can also tell your mom that you do recognize this is happening, and that you are thinking about it. Just letting them know, “I really understand what you’re saying.”

The image of the child that we have comes from things that are unfinished within US. We need to keep working on our own social skills,with our neighbors, spouses. It’s a life skill. It’s all about commitment. How DO you speak to someone in a way that will get your needs met? It’s not about tossing barbs.

Roleen: “All I know about successful communication, is that we have to be the person who listens FIRST. You can only truly be heard if you listen first. It’s just like with the kids, if everything’s a lesson, nobody wants to listen. We go to the Lesson, and the Morals, and Ethical Issues. We need to listen more so when they’re acting up, you kinda know WHY. ”

One mother describes, for example, her daughter saying she just wanted them to put her little sister in the trash can so she and her mom could have more time together. Instead of refuting this in any way, the mom just said, “You’re really missing our time together.”

Or the Poo Poo Pee Pee talk they get into. It’s just fun. You can put parameters in it, say where they can use that language. But it’s just fun.

Day Light Savings

It does cause disequilibrium. Like moving the furniture around. We talked about losing that hour of light after school, when it’s been such a good time to play outside, for instance. You may need to find other ways for them to cut loose, or take walks with flashlights.

Changes in eating and sleeping can really throw kids off. Sleep comes up pretty often as a discussion, but with each child there are so many variables. There’s no right or wrong about sleeping with your kids, or not, or how you work it out, as long as it works for your family. We talked about when kids sleep by themselves, and different strategies to keep them in their beds. Some parents have a kind of clock that shows a moon and a sun, or daytime and nighttime. It can be set so that your kid knows when it’s okay to come get you, or get in bed with you. It’s completely personal. And they go through growth spurts, and things happen with them as well. The most important thing, Roleen says, is that the partners be on the same page.

Nightmares

They’re working out their day. One thing that’s really important is not to use the time right before bed to talk about stuff that might be agitating. If that stuff IS coming up, try having a literal place to put it. Take a real box, and have them take the stuff out of their head and put it in the box. If you want to, you can always re-visit the box when you’re in a better mood. You can make a Dream Box. Somewhere tangible to put those dreams. They don’t necessarily have to be looked at again. If they’re having the same dream, they could just be anxious.

Tall Tales

Some of the kids are making up stuff about what happens at school. This is an opportunity to listen, and to find ways to let them express what they’re thinking about. You don’t need to see it as lying. They’re expressing things that are happening for them. For instance, some kids say that certain things happen to them, when in fact, these things are happening to someone else. They’re processing it. Listen. “Tell me more about that”. It doesn’t matter whether it is TRUE or not, it’s an opportunity to have them open up about what’s on their mind. “Can you draw it?” Go there with them. They might be talking about something they observed, even though they weren’t involved. They’re figuring out a way to enter into play. Imagination is pretty great. You don’t need to figure out what’s true. One great thing to do—make their story into a book! “let’s write it down! Those are great stories!” Get into the book thing– writing, etc. It is the truth to them. You only embarrass and shame someone when you call them out on it.

What about kids saying, for example, “I didn’t spit in that bowl of food” when you know they did? Well, if they spit in the bowl, they need to wash it out. “I don’t know what happened, but if there is spit in the bowl we have to wash it out.”

Don’t get into the battle about “lying”. We get in trouble when we expect children to understand something they don’t understand yet. We want them to be kind and ethical, etc, but they’re not THERE yet. We don’t want to get to into talking to them forever about things they don’t get. Michael tells the story about having this long deep discussion with Imonie, thinking she was listening intently. When he was done, she said, “You have a little head.”

Now, even if you can’t expect them to understand all the things, that doesn’t mean you don’t keep modeling them, and giving them experiences. They are incredibly capable. And they can practice things, and act out behaviors that they are struggling with. For instance, when people say Hello, and your child won’t say it back. Take those little moments and say we’re going to work on it. It’s a social cue that’s important. Keep it simple. You don’t want to work on a million things. But those social things are going to take them places. Act them out at home. Prepare them, and let them practice.  SHY is a bad label to hide behind. We need to learn how to be social. If they say they’re not going to talk, ask them to tell you more. Talk about it beforehand. Saying hello is important. “When someone says hello to you it’s really nice to have some kind of response.” Please and Thank you.

Birthday Parties

On that note, we discussed how birthday parties can be very challenging events. Some kids are helped by knowing what to expect. How many people will be there? What’s going to happen? Call ahead and get details. If you have a kid who needs to observe first, it’s okay to sit with them. They don’t need to be pushed. You can sit with them and BE their voice. Narrate what you both see, “Look, there’s Joey. There’s the cake…” All this can change with age. It’s important to remember it’s not about us.

“Kai wants to read all the time.” Now, this is wonderful, to get so lost in books. But you still need to have family time. You don’t want a child to do ANYTHING all the time. You can say, “You’re so lost in books, and it’s so fantastic. We need to figure out how we can have family time, and you can have time with your brother, too. Do you have any ideas about that?”

Lack of Responsiveness

They do get so zoned out they actually don’t hear you. You may sometimes need to physically go to them, and put a hand on their shoulder, to get their attention. They don’t have what’s called “Reversability”. They can get into a situation and not know how to get out of it. That’s why when they aren’t telling the truth, it can be so shaming to say, “Are you lying? I told you not to lie!” That can be dangerous, because they can’t undo it.

Santa Claus

“What do you think about Santa Claus? I like the magical part of it, but I’m conflicted about lying to my kid”.

There’s something to be said for magic and mystery. There are some great articles about the holidays under ARTICLES on the blog. Hannukah vs. Christmas, how to create new traditions, etc.  And don’t forget to read the one Roleen wrote about her mom (Grammy’s Gift). It’s with the Blog articles, too.